By Louis Chan
AsAmNews National Correspondent
Doubters will be doubters.
I’m likely wasting my time and energy trying to convince those who doubt the story of an Dyne Suh, a Korean American who says she was denied an Airbnb rental because of her race. Suh was told 15 minutes before arriving to the cabin in Big Bear, California that her reservation had been canceled. “I wouldn’t rent to you if you were the last person on earth. One word says it all, Asian,” the host said via text message to Suh.
As I mentioned in my first story, I too was a doubter.
But there’s a difference between healthy skepticism and not paying attention to reason.
A journalist from KTLA was in Big Bear President’s Day Weekend when he saw a very despondent Suh and caught her story on video. Steve Kuzj posted his video on his personal Facebook page last week and the video went vital. As of this morning, it has since generated 3.4 million views, 71,000 shares and more than 18,000 comments.
Some have questioned the likelihood a journalist just happenned to be there when all this happened. I admit it does seem incredulous. But it really did happen.
Here’s a link to the story Kuzj did on Suh on KTLA.
The most persistent reason for being a disbeliever is the belief the whole story hasn’t been told. Where’s the proof, they ask, that the Airbnb host granted permission in advance for Suh to bring two additional guests and her new born puppie.
AsAmNews asked Suh to forward to us the text messages of those conversations and she was glad to oblige.
Here’s the conversation that took place about the additional two guests.
Suh is a UCLA Law Student and law clerk with the Riverside County Public Defenders Office. She has credibility. She was also able to provide screen shots of her conversation with the host about bringing her puppy to the cabin. The host was at first reluctant, but after talking with her husband, agreed. You can click on each image to enlarge it.
Hopefully this puts an end to doubts about Suh’s story, but likely it will not.
“It is unfortunate how people tend to react when they hear about incidents of racism,” said Suh to AsAmNews. “Instead of listening with an open mind and heart, too many people close off into denial. Maybe it’s just that people don’t want to believe we live in a society where racism still exists, maybe it’s a possessive investment in White Supremacy, maybe it’s just ignorance as to how racism works and what racism looks like.
“Whatever the cause may be, that act of denying someone else’s pain can be as painful to the victim as experiencing the initial act of racial discrimination itself. To refuse to listen to People of Color when we say we have been racially discriminated against is racist in itself, the way it is sexist in itself to refuse to listen to a woman when she says she has been discriminated against because of her gender. We are not going to overcome racism as long as we refuse to listen to its victims and refuse to believe their stories.”
AsAmNews is an all-volunteer effort of dedicated staff and interns. You can show your support by liking our Facebook page at www.facebook.com/asamnews, following us on Twitter, sharing our stories, interning or joining our staff.
RE:Some sitll express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident: Where are the texts that show what took place the night of the cancellation? I concede that it appears that a contract existed. The host was very accommodating multiple times. What was the trigger that caused them to cancel?
It would also be useful to know why the other three adults have been silent on this matter and that at least Emily Williams deleted her FB posts for this period. Why hasn’t the perspective of the three other friends been pursued by journalists?
Could you also get clarification on why Suh posted on FB around 2:220-2:22am on 18 Feb that they were still traveling around the mountain looking for lodging, but at 1:31am she posted to Instagram a picture of herself with smeared mascuera inside of a wood paneled room, and at 1:51am posted a picture of her dogs “cuddles after a long night”, lying on a bed spread and pillows in a rather plush looking room. THe colors of the bed spread happen to match the colors of the picture behind Suh in the mascara picture. Did she later leave this room to travel around the mountain at 2:20am?
It appears that a contract existed has been established. It is also true that we still do not have the texts that took place leading up to the cancellation. Why not provide the whole story.
Racism is horrendous. The host used racist language after cancelling. To establish that the cancellation was due to race is not yet possible, by the public at least, because we have not presented by the evidence regarding the cancellation. Still too many holes in the story, but they are getting filled in slowly.
Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
RE: Some Still Expressing Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: Actually, Suh posted this on her FB at 12:16 am on Feb 18th: “Hi everyone! Thank you so so so so so much for all your love and support. We finally found shelter at a cute cabin after two hours of roaming around the snowy mountain. I felt too jarred to go in with my friends when they went to check in bc I didn’t want to potentially face discrimination again … but we are safe and sound for the night. Thank you so much again for your love and solidarity” as a comment to a post she made showing a screenshot of the exchanges after the incident. This timing checks out in terms of driving around for a couple of hours, as she was interviewed around 10 pm on Feb 17th. The posts of her crying against a wall and her dogs on a bed come after that 12:16 am comment. But, also, NOT at 1:31 and 1:51 am, unless the timing displayed is somehow different because of where you live. In fact, the posts do not show a time on FB, but the earliest comment on her mascara running pic was at 12:56 am; again the timing totally checks out. Perhaps her instagram post was later than FB, but I can’t verify because her insta is private. There is no reason to doubt the story based on her FB posts
And, I saw a comment a couple of days ago from her friend on one of the posts, corroborating the story. I would imagine it was deleted because the story blew up and she didn’t want to be in the spotlight, which I would do myself in that situation.
Re:Some still Expressing Serious Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident:I assume Airbnb has access to all of the messages in their messaging system (it looked like this was airbnb messaging), so the company would’ve investigated first before banning the host from their company. Airbnb provided a place for the guests to stay after this incident in February too from the other AsAm article.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about Victim in racist Airbnb incident:Also, more thoughts. Sorry, this whole story is interesting to me, as I initially had doubts too, as I am part Asian and grew up in San Bernardino, but never experienced anything like this, and Suh seems to be heavily involved career wise in racial discourse, as well as comes across as a slightly self-serving millennial type.
But at this point I’m convinced it’s all true, and inexcusable behavior on the host’s part, especially after seeing the additional screenshots in this update.
To quote, “the host was very accommodating?” In the text messages she seemed very nice, but not as much in the (airbnb?) messages with Suh’s photo attached.
“Do you want our dog to eat your dog?… I’ve considered and I say ‘no'” That whole exchange comes off as rude. And to claim that she didn’t realize her posting mentioned that pets are considered (which it did; I saw a screenshot of her old listing on another site), and that it was impossible, and then much later to say they usually only allow pets if the whole place is rented seems contradictory. She also tries to scare her about her pitbull, then says her pitbull will be gone, then later on she says her pitbull will be there. As well, she seems to try to get Suh to cancel by talking about the condition of the hottub. Meanwhile, Suh is super polite, and nice, and effusively grateful.
I would venture the host was reluctant to rent to her as an asian in the first place, and then Suh asking for 2 additional people, then a dog, than ANOTHER dog, and then it being one of the snowiest and busiest weekends and probably a full house when they finally did come up just built up over time as annoyances in the host’s already racially biased mind. Which ultimately led her to accuse Suh of being a BOGO foreigner that just wants things for free, despite their prior communications.
It’s pretty disgusting, especially when you learn that the host is or was an ESL teacher at a community college…
RE: Some still Express Serious doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (In reply to Eric): I agree that the host comes off as quite rude in the airbnb exchanges, something that a lot of Suh’s detractors seem to be overlooking. The listing pretty much says “ask us is you can bring your pet, we might say yes!” and yet when Suh asks about her very tiny dog, she gets smacked for not just knowing that that only applies when guests rent the entire house. How could she possibly have known that??? And the host doesn’t even seem to be aware of what is in the ad for her own rental.
Through all of this, Suh is VERY polite, even though she is very disappointed that the promised hot tub won’t be available because the hosts apparently don’t protect it from the snow or make much of an effort to keep accumulated snow off of it. What good is a hot tub in snow country if you can’t use it because of all of the snow? The host doesn’t apologize at all, she actually demands that Suh be gracious about this.
Yes it would be useful to see the text exchanges on the night when Suh’s party was supposed to check in. It seems likely that the deal fell apart because Suh didn’t actually send payment in advance for the additional guests, and maybe because she was running late (check-in ends at 9 P.M.) but that’s no reason for the host to rudely cancel without proper warning (assuming that’s what happened). I’m of the mind that they won’t do much to exculpate the host, but might provide more material for Suh’s detractors to pick over and try to find reasons to blame her instead of the bigoted host. Some people will never be satisfied and will grasp at any reason to shift blame onto a victim.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim n Racist Airbnb incident: I will add that I detect not the slightest hint of reluctance from the host about the two additional guests. Not even a whiff, if anything she’s probably happy to get the extra $100. As for the dogs, it’s her own darned fault that the wording in their ad is confusing. If pets are only considered when guests rent the entire house, then say that, and don’t mislead people that their pets might be welcome when they’re renting only a single room.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb Incident( in reply to Ellen):Pets are considered can mean: your pet fish, your Chia pet, your pet rock and your small dog that just doubled in size then cloned itself.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Ellen): Here are the texts from the actual night:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/04/07/one-word-says-it-all-asian-airbnb-host-reportedly-leaves-guest-stranded-because-of-her-race/?utm_term=.977bceb95de3#comments
RE: Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident (reply to Jen):I’m really sad you changed your opinion Bc you were right the first time! Suh does come off as an entitled brat. The host gets rude ” you want my dog to eat your dog” Bc Suh was rude by pointing out that the website states “depending on the dog.” By the way depending on the dog, can mean a lot of things. When you bring a pet to another home. It’s not as simple as when humans greet and move on. Dogs have to establish boundaries and would not feel comfortable the first few days a new pet is in their home. This may be why the house rules say that is not ideal for pets. And the host was not trying to scare her, but painting a clear picture of what could happen. I have a pitbull and when we rescued a dog, we had to keep the rescued dog locked in the room and my dog will stay by the door and whine. The host can allow it under whatever circumstances they see fit. This is also why the host feels the need to explain that they normally wouldn’t allow this when other guests are occupying the home. In this case the host went overboard being generous and allowed the person to bring the pet. But you can see around this point, how the host is starting to regret allowing this to continue. Then Suh decides that she will bring two pets instead of one! This is a complete lack of respect and just shows how inconsiderate she is.
If she’s sad that people have doubts to the credibility of her story; is Bc she doesn’t want to be called out on her bs. I’m not doubtful at all. These texts just prove what I had already imagined. If I had been the host; I would’ve canceled when she said she decided to bring an additional puppy.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Lucy): Suh initially asked about bringing her puppy because the listing actually encouraged inquiries and made no mention whatsover that the owners dog had a problem with other dogs. The host initially objected, then WITHOUT ANY FURTHER PRODDING FROM SUH, said she would talk to her husband about it. Her husband said that their own dog would not be there on that weekend and so it would be fine for Suh to bring hers. With that understanding in place, Suh asked if she could bring both puppies. These are little tiny dogs that spend most of their time in their carrier. It is similar to asking to bring two birds in a cage instead of just one.
RE: Some Still Express Doubts about Victim in Airbnb Incident(in reply to Lucy):. Suh seems like an entitled brat.
I would’ve cancelled on her too.
Give an inch they take a mile, not saying that all 3 billion Asians behave the same but everyone I met personally, seemed extremely patronizing.
Re: Some still express serious doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb Incident:Having read the original article in the Washington Post, and the follow-up in these 2 articles, I agree that the full story still isn’t complete. We need the WHOLE conversation (including the part that escalated up to the final argument), not to ascertain if racism or not, but just to see the whole picture.
I AM Asian, and somehow from reading the scenario, it doesn’t seem far-fetched that Suh may’ve set up a situation to be perceived as being cheap…which, haha, permit me to say this but…it seems like a normal Asian thing to do as I’ve seen tons of Asians do it ALL THE TIME to people. Let’s face it, there IS a large contingent of Asians who are cheap/shortchange/haggle their way through stuff, and we even make memes and “How to know if you’re Asian” lists that allude to that stuff. So stop denying it!!!! 🙂
Yes, it does appear that at the end, the woman uttered something racist (or at least stereotypical of Asians) for the kind of behavior she was perceiving. But Suh shouldn’t be excused entirely if something about her behavior resulted in her cancellation.
And the Asian-American community needs to get this story straight so that we can fight those right battles, and not make a big deal and let the media carry this away. The consequence is that if Suh is found to be an inconsiderate brat who’s crying racism, it makes us all look like whiners. It makes a mockery of other races who report real, bona-fide racist treatment. And next time when something really racist towards Asians happens, it lessens credibility.
From reading the other texts, it appears this host was pretty normal and nice, and despite the ad saying 2 guests max and no pets (when people say some pets are considered, they usually are thinking if the type of pet could be a caged, small animal, not a dog or cat), the host was actually willing to bend over backwards to accomodate Suh, even after Suh kind of PUSHED BACK about the terrier, citing “your ad says it’s oK”. That already is kind of inconsiderate; if you can tell the host feels uncomfortable and gave a good reason to initially refuse (to protect your dog from her own dog, and in consideration of other guests) you shouldn’t go there and PUSH back.
She later tells her about another new puppy, and asks in a way that she expect the host to accomodate or be a horrible person. I don’t know, if I just got a new puppy, it’s not the airbnb host’s problem–if they don’t allow pets, and you know they were already reluctant about the first puppy, you need to find a pet hotel or ask your momma to do some dogsitting. Not ask the airbnb host to accommodate your “baby”. I don’t like the way she “asked” if she could bring them a bottle of wine, btw. The way she asked that question was insincere. If you really mean it, you should offer to pay X amount for their trouble.
My impression after seeing the video is kind of like…uh…TOTAL drama queen. My hunch is that this was a very inconsiderate, bratty group of young students who wanted to crash this place with 2 puppies and take advantage of the snowy weather to try and get a deal. When it backfired, and some racist comments came out, the leader of the group wanted revenge and luckily a news crew was there to make this into a huge dramatic thing.
It is mystifying that Tami Barker is an ESOL teacher and these racist comments came from her. I would be curious to hear from her students and peers at the college if this incident matches up with their day to day experience. I don’t think anyone who dislikes other races would take the trouble to get ESOL certified and choose to work in ESOL…?!
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Jill) :I agree.
I would like to see the ENTIRE exchange, start to finish, in it’s complete form. Where are the texts where the host goes from begrudgingly agreeing to all of Suh’s requests, to finally snapping? It does seem from the texts that Suh was a bit pushy, perhaps a bit inconsiderate and entitled. I honestly cannot imagine telling a host “but you said you would consider pets in your ad!!” MUCH LESS, then inform her of a SECOND dog, after it was clear that she very begrudgingly agreed to the first.
The host is clearly in the wrong to start spouting racial insults after getting fed up with Suh. That’s not how to deal with people, rude or not, or how to stick to your own boundaries. However, I also don’t think Suh is the completely innocent angel she purports herself to be. And the racism was more about her behavior, not about letting her stay or not. After all, the host knew from the very first message that Suh was Asian.
I would say they were both unprofessional, rude, and both are at fault. The host also needs to know how to set firmer boundaries and how to say no.
Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident(In reply to Jill):I’m convinced Dyne is lying about her own intentions and actions. Notice on her FB page before this incident she said she wants to abolish capitalism. What is earning money through AirRnb if not capitalism? I went to law school too, I can tell you that brand new lawyers and law students spend half their time dreaming of that one big lawsuit that will make them rich and looking to spot violations of rights and causes of action everywhere hoping its right around the corner. Notice how Dyne immediately says she will have her constitutional rights vindicated and starts taking dramatic photos of what it looks like to be so injured by racist words. Creating evidence of damages and harm, melodramatically, exaggerating. She also did not pay the advanced deposit for the 2 friends and waited until she was a minute away before texting she would pay now. So she was avoiding the cancellation fee and deposit until she was sure she was around the corner before risking the money. That’s why Tami called her a con artist and cancelled someone who had not paid the full deposit in my opinion. It was too much after all the other manipulation over dogs and friends and expressing she was not sure if she would cancel. Notice Dyne had suggested in a text she could pay for the friends in cash. Well, no, their was an advanced deposit required, so cash does not cut it since its not an advance. If she did not pay the advanced amount for the other two, it’s Dyne who breached the contract before she even arrived and the cancellation was effective for nonpayment.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: “Creating evidence of damages and harm…”
OR MAYBE she was actually significantly harmed without provocation or reason and was simply documented the effects, in the way someone who has been punched in the face will take pictures of the bruises.
Honestly, these continued attacks are just so much victim-blaming. This is appalling and disgusting.
RE: Some Still Express Doubt about Victim in Airbnb Incident( in reply to Jill):Thank you Jill.
I feel vindicated. My wife is Asian and she’d be the first to admit that Asians are cheap.
However if I dare say it it becomes a racist comment instead of a cultural stereotype.
Ms. Suh came across as a spoiled brat that indeed wanted something for nothing and pushed and pushed the host beyond her breaking point.
Re: Some still Express Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident:Having read the original article in the Washington Post, and the follow-up in these 2 articles, I agree that the full story still isn’t complete. We need the WHOLE conversation (including the part that escalated up to the final argument), not to ascertain if racism or not, but just to see the whole picture.
I AM Asian, and somehow from reading the scenario, it doesn’t seem far-fetched that Suh may’ve set up a situation to be perceived as being cheap…which, haha, permit me to say this but…I’ve seen tons of Asians do it ALL THE TIME to people. Let’s face it, there IS a large contingent of Asians who are cheap/shortchange/haggle their way through stuff, and we even make memes and “How to know if you’re Asian” lists that allude to that stuff. So stop denying it!!!! 🙂
Yes, it does appear that at the end, the woman uttered something racist (or at least stereotypical of Asians) for the kind of behavior she was perceiving. But Suh shouldn’t be excused entirely for causing this situation, if something about her behavior resulted in her cancellation.
And the Asian-American community needs to get this story straight so that we can fight those right battles, and not make a big deal and let the media carry this away. The consequence is that if Suh is found to be an inconsiderate brat who’s crying racism, it makes us look like whiners if we get behind it without getting to the truth. It makes a mockery of other races who report real, bona-fide racist treatment. And next time when something really racist towards Asians happens, it lessens credibility.
From reading the other texts, it appears this host was pretty normal and nice, and despite the ad saying 2 guests max and no pets (when people say some pets are considered, they usually are thinking if the type of pet could be a caged, small animal, not a dog or cat), the host was actually willing to bend over backwards to accomodate Suh, even after Suh kind of PUSHED BACK about the terrier, citing “your ad says it’s oK”. That already is kind of inconsiderate; if you can tell the host feels uncomfortable and gave a good reason to initially refuse (to protect your dog from her own dog, and in consideration of other guests) you shouldn’t go there and PUSH back. She also disclosed ahead of time that the hottub would be unavailable, and Suh expressed extreme disappointment, and that’s a classic negotiation-move that anyone in law/business should pick up right away.
Suh later tells her about another new puppy, and asks in a way that she expect the host to accommodate or be a horrible person for saying no to their “baby”. I don’t know, if I just got a new puppy, it’s not the airbnb host’s problem–if they don’t allow pets, and you know they were already reluctant about the first puppy, you need to find a pet hotel or ask your momma to do some dogsitting. Not ask the airbnb host to accommodate your “baby”. I don’t like the way she “asked” if she could bring them a bottle of wine, btw. The way she asked that question was insincere. If you really mean it, you should offer to pay X amount for their trouble because the host surprisingly didn’t even ask for extra money for the dogs. Just reading that bit so far, I have reason to believe the host is a nice person and was starting to feel taken-advantage of…and then finally at the end she says “$50 for 4 people and 2 dogs??” seems to indicate there was a bit more in the arguments leading up to the final insults.
RE: Some still Expressing Doubt about Victin in Racist Airbnb Incident:I read this news in Chinese social media and found out I couldn’t agree with some comments below, so I checked English medias and hoped to get different opinions.
I am Asian and found the host’s reply appalling and disgustful. But probably I am not living in the U.S so I might count myself as an outsider on this.
The reason that I dislike some replies under the Chinese social media is this abhorrent logic: just because someone did something wrong, so others can treat them badly. This is like the Culture revolution comes alive again. Horrible. And some replies there also manifest a pretty popular thought among Chinese people living in the U.S – we are the minority and foreigners so we do our best and don’t annoy people so they won’t dislike us or saying something horrible to us. We don’t cause trouble to people. What is this? You already admit you are lower than other people? I feel that this Chinese or Confucius thinking makes sense in the context of China because the situation is different, but probably does not in the U.S.
I don’t think this racism is right. No one is allowed to saying anything like this to anyone, no matter what they do.
RE: Some still express doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident:I can’t imagine how much courage a person has to have to stand up against racism. It is hard for a 25 year old. She probably gains publicity ? gains attention because she needs it? I don’t think so.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: “we are the minority and foreigners so we do our best and don’t annoy people so they won’t dislike us or saying something horrible to us”
This is a very good point. Young white Americans double up in rooms on ski holidays all the time, and run no risk of being stereotyped as “cheap white people”. Everyone seems to understand that students don’t have a lot of money to spare. So why did this host reach for a stereotype about Asians when Suh is a student and had agreed in advance to pay extra for the additional guests. It just doesn’t make sense and isn’t at all fair.
Suh was very clear and extremely polite with her requests, grateful for the host’s promised accommodations, and did not raise a fuss about the hot tub even though she was obviously very disappointed. And for all of that was treated very badly by this host who seems to think that Trump’s presidency gives her cover to treat minorities badly on a whim, because as a white person she is superior and should be treated with great deference by someone like Suh. Shame on her.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Ellen):If you read the previous article you will read Suh ended up bringing 5 people together with her making a party of 6, and thinking it’s okay to pay $25 each. . The listing was a double occupancy room for $250. The host originally only agreed to four people with the other two guest $25 extra each. The host is already very gracious to let her bring two puppies at no extra charge but imaging letting six people and two dogs into your house? who’d want that? The host is correct on Suh being a Bogo buffet. And Suh is Asian I don’t see the wrong in stating that. This is NOT racism.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (In reply to Ellen):@Another Asian: the wording of the previous article is incorrect. It states that Suh made a reservation for four people then added another two people. This is wrong, the initial reservation was for two people, she later requested permission for another two , for a total of four.
The host at the last minute claimed complete ignorance of granting permission for ANY additional guests and turned away the entire party, and accompanied this with flurry of vicious, racist, xenophobic insults and taunts about how things are different under President Trump, who ran his entire campaign on themes of marginalizing minorities. She called Suh a “foreigner” even though she is a citizen. She would NEVER have said something like to a white person. This most certainly IS racism, plain and simple.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in response to Jill Wu): Wow, your reply is disgraceful. I understand wanting more information but you are totally judging Dyne as being a brat just like the right wing dj’s I heard this morning. Way to victim-blame! Even more surprising coming from another asian woman. How would you react to racial treatment? I didn’t need to asian, a college student or an owner of two puppies to have empathy for Dyne. Read her post on her facebook page and see if you still have the right to judge her.
Re: Some still express serious doubt about victim in Racist Airbnb incident:So the young lady may have been wrong on so many levels and seemed a bit pushy doesn’t not excuse anyone to use hateful, insecure and evil words towards another person. No one only unless they subscribe to racism, Colorism, sexism and ageism would think otherwise wise. The host crossed the line simple as that.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Ally):Of course it doesn’t excuse it! I just think it’s also worth noting what caused the host to say those things, because it paints a whole other picture. It’s one thing if Suh was a sweet, non-pushy perfect angel and then out of the blue the host starts throwing racist insults at her and refuses to rent to her “just because” she’s Asian. It’s a little different when it’s shown that Suh has been pushy and a little entitled and inconsiderate and then host finally had enough, and WRONGLY expressed her frustration by by snapping and throwing racist insults at Suh.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident: Would be really helpful to know what took place in the text communications after the once shown at the end of the last screen shot here;
“So if the roads are blocked”.
I suspect that may be where the start of where things got real. Why not post the entire conversation? There is something interesting in the remaining gap. We still haven’t seen the actual cancellation.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Existentialed):Here’s the cancellation:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/04/07/one-word-says-it-all-asian-airbnb-host-reportedly-leaves-guest-stranded-because-of-her-race/?utm_term=.977bceb95de3#comments
RE: Some still express erious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident: How do we know that Suh didn’t use racist or insulting language somewhere in the exchange? I agree that the host was wrong to use racist language. Suh is still hiding something by not releasing the whole conversation. It really is as simple as that. Why allow any doubt at all about what took place in the whole context by holding back the whole conversation. The gaps in the conversation in the public eye leave doubt.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: Why did the reporter, Steve Kuzj, hold the story until 5 April when he posted it to his FB page. It then ran on KTL5 on 6 April? Why the delay? Why run it on a FB page before the affiliates website that you work for? There might be good reason but it is an important part of the context of this whole story.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: AsAm – can you post the whole thing? Where are the remaining messages from the night of the cancellation?
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident:(in reply to Michael Barton): As Louis Chan stated in this story, those that disagree with the host will continue to disagree. No amount of evidence will change their minds.
RE: Some Still Express Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Randall):That’s incorrect in my case. I’m ready to change my mind upon further review of complete evidence.
The new data in this article suggests that the host was accommodating and ready to host Dyne and friends, even after light pressuring from Dyne on the dog issue. Leaving out what happened between these texts and the host’s 180 degree flip does the reader a disservice and leaves us unequipped to develop a fair and informed opinion.
If there’s nothing to hide, Dyne should release the records that show exactly what happened that night.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: So, why is AsAmNews letting this story die at this point? The whole truth has not been reported. What has been reported so far is unbalanced. If you have access to Suh, she should release the whole context of the conversation. What gives?
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: The host was rude, ignorant and obviously passive agressive. Suh is immature, drama queen and manipulative, not representing Asian well.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: May you all please post the ENTIRE transcript? Thanks! There seems to be gaps in the communication. What led to the breakdown in communication? The host has already dealt with consequences, but perhaps this was not one-sided. Perhaps, there is nothing more to the story but why not disclose the entire conversation? Also, why are the transcripts above using different platforms to communicate?
RE: Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident:I think the matter of getting permission is a red herring:
– “$25 each, so an extra $50 a night. I can send u a new invoice that would add these guests to the bill if you like”
– “If you think 4 people and 2 dogs ate getting a room fir $50 a night on big bear mountain during the busiest weekend of the year ..… You are insanely high”
– “one word says it all: Asian”
The following is speculation, but weaves these 3 statements into a coherent and narrative:
– Tami never got around to updating the invoice amount from $50 to $100
– Dyne noticed the amount and inquired whether that was the amount
– Tami misinterpreted this query as an attempt to squeeze out yet another concession (as with first one dog, then another)
– Tami’s “Asian” refers specifically to the stereotype of being cheap rather than a general object of hatred
– Tami is clearly interested in money: such a person wouldn’t cancel at 10pm the night of unless they felt they were being ripped off
I’ve been tracking this on WaPo as well. A commentator there posted this and I agree:
RE:Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident:”The selective application of logic and objectivity is destructive in our society today. Laws apply to everyone. Racism should be applied to no body. And selective employment of context in a human drama, exposing what supports your narrative, while hiding what doesn’t is dishonorable and destructive as well.
Until Suh divulges the sum total of the conversation that took place on this fateful night, the story weighs as heavily towards Suh’s deception as it does the host’s bigotry.
Knowing that the staff/reporters check and follow these comment threads, especially when it explodes on what was a minor piece like this one, it is telling that they don’t engage with a follow-up to correct the record and repair the damage to their own reputation as journalists.”
RE: Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Existentialed) :I find it peculiar that all the skeptics have not wondered by the host has remained silent on this issue. Dyne has stuck to her ethics and not divulged her identity in hopes that the host will repent. Texts are a two way street. The host has access to those texts as well. Yet SHE has not released it. We need to stop blaming the victim. It’s the same as when people blame the rape victim because her skirt was too high.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident(reply to Randall): Actually, she did post the woman’s information. She also made her get dropped from Airbnb by issuing complaints alleging she was dropped from the reservation because she was Asian – never mentioning that she was trying to scam the hostess.
RE: Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident: I’m not blaming the victim. The host has suffered the consequences and has gone silent for their own reasons. Have you seen the rush of people contacting their work place? They’ve already lost the AirBnB affiliation which impacts their revenue and livelihood. They are probably trying to stay out of the limelight.
The deception lies with Suh who has chosen to selectively release the information. That leaves open the possibility that she has something to hide in this matter as well. Is there something in the messages that she is holding back that she is ashamed of and that don’t completely fit her narrative as the victim of overt racism?
By not being completely forthright and providing the complete account of the evidence of what took place between them, Suh leaves judgement open to the potential that she is being deceptive.
It is in fact just as dishonorable to mislead the public through selective release of evidence as it is for a racist comment to slip in the heat of the moment between two people.
I am not defending the host – they have paid the price and have chosen to stay out of the public eye in the matter. Suh on the other hand leaves the matter of her true and full involvement and responsibility in the matter open to judgment.
Suh could clear the record by releasing a full accounting of the conversation.
Some Still Express Doubts about Victims in Racist Airbnb Incident: Dyne is not enjoying the limelight either. That’s the reason she didn’t follow up with the journalist when he didn’t do anything with the interview she did with her. She has paid as big a price as the Airbnb host. Her motives have been questioned, and her character demeaned by many. She doesn’t deserve this. She’s just speaking up for what she perceived as an injustice.
RE: Some Still Express Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Randall): Can you have her provide the full transcript from the night of the cancellation?
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb incident (in reply to Michael Barton): As previously noted in comments and on Dyne Suh’s facebook, because Tami is no longer on airbnb, Suh no longer has access to those messages. She only has the screenshots that she took at the time, which did not capture the entire conversation (probably because she didn’t think it was relevant and wasn’t expecting the court of public opinion to come and try to drag her through the mud just because an airbnb host subjected her to racist language.)
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident; Yes, Ms. Suh does threaten the Host about the hot tub.
On April 9th AsAmNews quoted Ms. Suh, “I said that no, she is the one who misled me by advertising on Airbnb that there was a hot tub, that pets were considered (and approved them), and that adding two people would be okay for $25 more each. “”I told her I will report to Airbnb that her advertisement is misleading.””
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: I don’t doubt that Suh has dealt with some fallout from this. The whole story didn’t get told and those are the consequences. If the whole story had been divulged there wouldn’t be any doubt in the public’s mind as to what actually took place.
I am engaged for this primarily because of the poor journalism, which happens to be rampant today. When journalists take on a story they have a responsibility to the public to pursue the whole truth and full context of a story. They are not supposed to prejudge and allow a subject to a story to selectively provide evidence to the context but leave other evidence hidden. Professional journalism would have ensured that the whole story was told regarding the full exchange that took place between the people involved in this matter so that the public could judge the matter for themselves in full light. As it is the journalists allowed Suh to selectively provide evidence that benefited a certain narrative and because of that a large part of public doubts that the story went down as portrayed. This may be sad, because it undercuts what might the absolute truth of the matter. Selective provision of the evidence causes doubt. The journalists are as guilty for that as Suh.
There is still only one way to clear the matter. Somebody, either the host, Suh or the other three could provide full evidence of what took place. I still doubt that will happen.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (in reply to Existentialed):For the record, she gave us everything we asked for. For you to assume she was selective is inaccurate. Also we waited 24 hours to publish our original story. We wanted to confirm the incident happened. We confirmed that. No body is denying that this happened. How people interpret the facts is beyond our control. We live in a free society and people are entitled to their opinions. Thank you for yours.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident:If you are one of the journalists in this story then you bear part of the blame. The entire evidence in the matter has in fact not been put before the public. Overt racism as a matter of systemic application is one thing. A culturally insensitive exchange in the heat of the moment that might have been triggered by words just as egregious as the host’s is something altogether different.
There is no way to defend the selective use of evidence by the victim in a case with such dire consequences as this one. Journalists involved in the matter carry a great deal of the blame for anything that Suh has suffered as result of how the story was reported. She is a lay person, albeit a very knowledgable one as a law student and clerk, and it is the responsibility of the journalists to protect the lay public in these matters, especially as victims. The journalists are supposed to have the professionalism to know that a victim in a story like this may want to withhold certain facts that don’t play to the narrative that they want to tell. It is the journalists responsibility to protect that victims, as subject of a larger human drama, by using appropriate questioning and investigating to draw out the full context. The journalists did not do that in this case and everyone suffered because of it; Suh, the host, and the public who again looses confidence in the press to provide full accounting and fair reporting of a story.
There is some potential that a brighter ending could be crafted in this matter. If a full accounting of the conversation was known by the public, even if it is judged that Suh carried some responsibility because of her actions and words, perhaps the host could be nudged to have a conversation with Suh and the others, apologize for a heated exchange at the spur of the moment, accept each others responsibility in how this played out, make amends and strive together to learn from it and set an example to help society understand that we really can get along if we just communicate fully and without malice. Professional journalism could have helped this happen on the front of the story. It could still play a role in helping tho happen on the back-end.
Somehow I doubt that will occur as well.
RE: Some Still Express Serious doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (In Replay to Existentialed): “…a case with such dire consequences as this one.” Someone with, at best, poor communication skills and a penchant for casual racism, loses their supplemental airbnb income? I’d hardly call that dire.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about Victim in racist Airbnb incident: To amplify my point, now that I re-read Chan’s story here, she is most definitely one of the subjects that I am referring to regarding unprofessional journalism. When she provides above that,
“The most persistent reason for being a disbeliever is the belief the whole story hasn’t been told. Where’s the proof, they ask, that the Airbnb host granted permission in advance for Suh to bring two additional guests and her new born puppie.”
Chan is using the trick of selectively asking the victim for more information making it appear as Suh has divulged all she knows and the matter is settled. In fact what Chan should have done is to ask Suh for entire account of the conversation. That should have done up front; perhaps it was and this has all been designed to report in a biased way – I don’t know the intent, just the effect and the result.
Because of poor journalism skills the public is left in doubt on this matter, not that the host used racist language, but that Suh’s perhaps played a role that the public doesn’t know. Chan’s efforts to correct the record do little to assuage public doubt in Suh’s role in this matter. Chan’s tag-line “Doubters will be doubters” is a dodgy attempt to cover for her poor journalism skills in allowing this story to only be partially put before the public.
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident: I agree with Existentialed, unfortunately a huge reason why this has become a big issue is the poor journalism/reporting of this event. Is it that hard to get the full transcript of a conversation these days? And why are we being told to shut up by some, as if it doesn’t matter–just because we would like to see the full story? It’s simple: let it all come out and we’ll see for ourselves and settle it. I’m glad there are many people questioning this and actually thinking instead of just reacting to an obviously one-sided reporting job.
It matters, because if we have stuff like this going on (Asians behaving poorly and soon as something racist comes out they slap it up as RACISM!!!) then it undercuts credibility and makes a mockery of real racist events, for other Asians and other races.
Before the full, unadulterated transcript has been revealed (which journalists must take care to procure, as time has passed and it’s all too easy to photoshop anything nowadays just saying), this is an incomplete, sensationalist story.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: What if there was no record of the conversation? In this day of instant gratification we are so spoiled with needing to see things in order to believe it. I believed Dyne from the moment I read the story and read her sincere post on her facebook page. Was she being a little annoying about asking if two puppies can come? YES, however, that absolutely did not give the host any right to cancel or say the racist things she said. Being annoying NEVER should equal hate not to mention the unprofessionism Tami has shown as a host! It blows my mind that some asian women in this thread are being just as mean to Suh. Way to support one another! How will you feel if this type of hate happens to you and fellow asian women take the side of the racist?? Heartbroken I’m sure.
Especially considering the Sutters are not defending themselves, Suh should be given the benefit of the doubt just as we should with rape victims. Yes, some people lie but that is up to their own karma to take them down, not us!!
RE: Some Still Express Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident( in reply to Angie): Please do not compare this situation to rape. They are not even remotely the same. Suh does not “deserve” the benefit of assuming she is telling the truth. She put the host on blast and has destroyed her career without providing ALL of the information. Her story doesn’t add up and won’t until the FULL transcript is released. Most people don’t like liars and biased journalism.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb Incident(reply to John Smith) : Completely agree. Comparing this to rape is a prime example of false equivalency to set up a straw-man argument. That is another pattern of journalism, and critical thinking, that needs to be de-emphasized.
RE: Some Still Express Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: Thanks Jill. Another thought came to mind, perhaps this is what has really been nagging at me, and it isn’t just this story but months of others like it – this one just became the break over for me. Poor journalism is contributing to severe divisiveness that we see in the country today. If journalists would be more diligent in seeking the truth and full context of stories, rather than stopping the investigation when facts support some preconceived narrative or agenda, the public would be able to more fully judge on fact and we might actually find that we have less differences between us today than many presume.
RE: Some Still Express Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: You don’t automatically side with a person just because they are the same race and gender as you.
If this had been a clear cut case where say, soon as Dyne Suh contacted her, the woman said: no, because you’re Asian” that’s pretty straightforward. But it just wasn’t the case, and news stories reporting this as “Asian woman denied housing because of race” just aren’t being accurate. When bad behavior gets mixed in, we need to tease that out and see it for what it is, and not excuse bad behavior because of someone else’s racism.
Again, not excusing the bad behavior of the host, but we need to see and acknowledge the renter’s bad behavior for what it is, and how it figures into the context.
RE: Some still Express serious doubts about Victim in racist airbnb incident: So interestingly enough someone on WaPo noticed and commented that Suh had addressed this matter on her FB page today, so I went and looked. Suh makes lot’s of conciliatory comments, after basically calling Tami the host stupid for not knowing how activist Suh is with all of her affiliations.
Conveniently she says that she no longer has access to the whole conversation. I suspect there’s some back pedaling going on.
In the final analysis Suh did not provide all of the evidence required to be fair and selectively released the evidence that benefited her narrative. The reporters played into this bias and deception. The deception is really terrible thing that is left unaccounted for inn this drama.
I will do everything I can to get the host to come in from the dark and see if can’t bring some clarity to the deception. It is obvious that the journalists aren’t going to.
RE: Some Still express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident (in response to Existentialed): You accused AsAmNews and Louis Chan of being poor journalist because we haven’t published the entire transcript, yet you just took a small portion of Dyne’s Facebook post and used that to further demonize the victim. How is what you did different from what you accuse our reporter of doing. Here’s the entire Facebook post? LOL https://www.facebook.com/dynesuh/posts/10155208459189568
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident: (in reply to Randall)Randall, I agree with you completely. It sounds to me like “Existentialed” prefers to over-analyze this situation instead of taking a moment to get the feel of who Dyne is as a person. I understand the desire to ask questions but in this case, no matter what Dyne said to Tami, Tami had absolutely no right to be outright racist and rude. I’m starting to wonder if “Existentialed” knows the host personally and is trying to save her reputation?? If not, than it must just be a fascination with being an armchair sleuth (or the joy of trying to prove people wrong?).
Existentialed might want to move on over to the Reddit page regarding Sherri Papini….that case has MANY holes and tons of internet sleuths. People with deep analyzing skills are very welcomed there.
I appreciate this AsAm News and all that you did to help Dyne get her message out. I wasn’t a reader before this but now will be. =)
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim n Racist Airbnb incident: Here is what Suh says in point #2 of her pFB post:
“2. I have already released the other text messages between Tami and me of her approving the dogs and two friends to numerous news outlets. I have already released the entire conversation. The news stations wanted to verify the part about dogs and friends with me before reporting the story. They are professional investigative reporters. They did their homework. AsAm News has posted the conversation (http://asamnews.com/…/some-still-express-serious-doubts-a…/ ). I want to show you the whole transcript of the conversation through desktop, but the message thread won’t show up on the desktop airbnb page. (Update: as of 4/11 I can’t access it on my phone either. But I still have the screencaps.)”
Can anyone following this tell me where we saw any screen shots form the last one, :”So, if the roads are blocked”, sometime after that would have been other conversation because I have not seen anything the actual cancellation. So, either the news outlets haven’t provided the whole conversation or Suh is deceiving again.
RE:Some still express serious doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb incident: Below is a post from Dyne’s facebook page. She covers even more in the comments including allowing Air B&B to release the rest of the convo since she can no longer access it (maybe due to deletion of host’s account?). To the skeptics: hopefully this will clear up the doubts and show you what a genuine and caring person Dyne is. I do not personally know Dyne. The reason I am defending her is because people like Tami MUST be called out. Her comments were absolutely unacceptable no matter what transpired before. I do wonder if Tami was misunderstanding Dyne about the final price when she contacted her that evening but she should have stayed professional in order to clear things up and should have NEVER ever said those racist remarks. I feel she absolutely deserves to be fired from her work as an ESL instructor. That would be criminal to allow her to continue now that she has shown us her true colors.
Message from Dyne’s facebook page:
“Sorry to let this get under my skin but … Dear skeptics …
1. Activists and law students get discriminated against too. Political beliefs are no shield. Tami probably would have thought a little harder before making those statements if she knew about my ACLU, NLG, BLM, etc background, but she didn’t. I did say I was a law student on my profile, though. Bad move on her part.
2. I have already released the other text messages between Tami and me of her approving the dogs and two friends to numerous news outlets. I have already released the entire conversation. The news stations wanted to verify the part about dogs and friends with me before reporting the story. They are professional investigative reporters. They did their homework. AsAm News has posted the conversation (http://asamnews.com/…/some-still-express-serious-doubts-a…/ ). I want to show you the whole transcript of the conversation through desktop, but the message thread won’t show up on the desktop airbnb page. (Update: as of 4/11 I can’t access it on my phone either. But I still have the screencaps.)
3. Yeah I cried! Having studied racism and having experienced discrimination many times throughout my life does not make me immune from the pain it causes each time. If anything, it makes it more painful because I understand it more. I chose to study race precisely because I have been discriminated against in the past – to right that wrong and find ways to prevent the hurt from happening to others. I am a sensitive person, and especially when I am discriminated against for my race because it is like getting kicked a spot that is already bruised. Of course it wasn’t my first time being discriminated against – it happens all the time. Not a single month goes by without someone saying “Where are you really from?” or “that’s the thing about Asians …” or catcalling “konnichiwa” “me love you long time” “hey Asian girl” when I walk down the street or my race plays some significant role in some subtle way.
4. I said it was by the “grace of God” we parked by a news truck that was covering the storm when we were three minutes away from her house because we could hardly believe it either. My friends were tieing snow chains together using their shoestrings when Steve came out of the truck and offered his help to call a tow truck and we started talking about what had just happened to us. He wanted to record me saying what happened on camera so he could show his supervisors at KTLA and see if they wanted to follow up on it. I didn’t hear from Steve again until he posted the video on YouTube and Hetty Chang from NBC gave me a call saying she had seen it and wanted to do the story. I had no idea it had even been uploaded, or when it was uploaded.
5. My 2 friends drove 3 hours from Santa Barbara for this trip. My fiance and I, though we lived about 45 mins from Running Springs (1:45 from Big Bear though), wanted to stay in a cabin in the mountains (with a hot tub, which Tami misrepresented in her ad). We can’t hot tub in the snow in Riverside, but we could have in Running Springs.
6. Look, racism is a thing, okay? Stop being an asshole.
7. I didn’t mean for her to get banned. I thought airbnb would issue her a warning. The latest review on her profile indicates they were still renting in March. I heard a rumor she is still hosting under her husband’s name. As long as she has learned her lesson and won’t discriminate, and other airbnb hosts have learned not to do the same, cool.
8. Airbnb has offered me free stays at expensive Big Bear resorts ($375/night). I politely declined and said all I want is for Airbnb to innovate creative solutions to end discrimination on its app. Several high profile attorneys have offered their services to help me recover damages for claims like emotional distress. I have not replied to a single offer. The only entity I am cooperating with is the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing. Some con artist I am.
9. Just like if I’m not a boy, I don’t know what it is like to be a boy as a boy does, listen to me as an Asian American, if you are not Asian American, and trust I probably know what it’s like to be an Asian American better than you do. I don’t know what it feels like to get kicked in the balls – if you’re not Asian American, you don’t know what it feels like to be discriminated against for being Asian, but based on people’s stories, we can assume both feel pretty bad, maybe even crying over. People experiencing racism know what racism feels like better than people who don’t do. Just listen and be humble enough to believe you don’t know everything already and make an effort to learn. True knowledge is to know the extent of one’s own ignorance.
10. Please respect Tami’s privacy. We all make mistakes and we are all learning. Unfortunately, we are all racist to varying degrees and we all have debiasing to do. No witchhunts please. This is not a Tami problem, this is not a Big Bear/Running Springs problem – it’s an all of us and everywhere problem.
11. Most importantly, thanks again to everyone for all the love and support from around the world. <3 Let us all spread love and kindness to one another and rid the world of racism and other forms of discrimination.
Love and solidarity,
Dyne"
RE: Some still express serious doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident: Louis Chan / Randall, please ask Ms. Suh the following questions.
(1) Why does Ms. Suh threaten to report the Host to Airbbnb about the hot tub
when the message exchange clearly states she knew it was inoperable and yet
continued with the rental? Did she feel obligated to let the issue of hot tub slide since the Host acquiesced to her requests to bring her dogs?
(2) Why did Ms. Suh brazenly violate the terms of the Airbnb contract by attempting to pay cash to the Host? It is a big deal operate outside of the Airbnb website.
(3) AsAmNews reports that you paid $250 dollars in January. Where does this figure come from? I am under the impression Ms. Suh paid $39.00 per night for two nights to rent the room. That should add up to roughly 100 dollars assuming there may be other fees or taxes added?
(4) Since Ms. Suh cannot or refuses to provide the entire message exchange, can she explain how the Host goes from being amiable and accommodating based on the released messages to angry? Was it spontaneous? Did Ms. Suh make additional requests?
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (In Reply to Phil): She does not threaten to report about the hot tub. She says “oh bummer about the hot tub” and “I think we can make it work.” She threatens to report (and eventually did report) the host’s comment “I wouldn’t rent to you if you were the last person on earth. One word says it all. Asian.” to which Suh replied “I will report to airbnb that you are racist.”
“Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident”…uh yeah we do have doubts! Not including the ENTIRE text conversation actually makes people have even more doubt…NO Doubt. Pun intended.
Now post the enitre message so people can actually make a judgement based on the facts. All the facts.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: “AsAmNews asked Suh to forward to us the text messages of those conversations and she was glad to oblige.”
That actually is not true. This text message posted above does not include the ending or the beginning. So either SUh was NOT “glad to oblige OR asamnews.com decided NOT to post the entire message.
I’m curious as to which it is and why?
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb incident: We got interested in this drama this evening after a friend mentioned it over martinis. We live in DC area and are accustomed to all kinds of human drama. After looking through the comments, and in the essence of time (we do have better things to do…), we are throwing our weight behind this commentator who calls themselves “AngelWhisperer” on the Washington Post comment thread for this piece:
So as we understand it , Dyne Suh, the main human in this human drama posted this to her FaceBook yesterday, we looked at it and can verify that it was there. Then at some point this AngelWhisperer commentator offered the following on the Washing Post site, initially quoting Suh’sFaceBook post:
“Sorry to let this get under my skin but … Dear skeptics …
1. Activists and law students get discriminated against too. Political beliefs are no shield. Tami probably would have thought a little harder before making those statements if she knew about my ACLU, NLG, BLM, etc background, but she didn’t. I did say I was a law student on my profile, though. Bad move on her part.”
“Bad move on her part”, for what?
That is the headline here that the entire journalist profession has missed on this story.
An American trying to make an income stream through AirbNb, made a bad decision because that host didn’t know that they were in a contract negotiation with someone with activist credentials from, “…ACLU, NLG, BLM, etc …” ,according to Dyne Suh’s face Book post yesterday? And that warrants a …I’m not sure how to characterize that…is it a threat, a warning, a taunt?
So, as I understand Dyne Suh’s reasoning, today hosts offering their abodes to AirBnB need to research the activists backgrounds of who they are renting to?
This story has legs that need a really strong journalist to pursue.”
End of AngelWhisperers post, start of ours again.
WTF…the Washington Post can;t get to the bottom of this and put the truth out?
We’ve seen this so many times….peace out you all, this is sad.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident( in reply to Alexandriaouabouts): This is not some soap opera for your amusement. This is Dyne’s life! So you are choosing to line up your opinions with someone that is picking one small useless point over the fact that Tami used harsh racial words against Dyne?? I would have the said the same thing if I were Dyne. Tami did mess with the wrong person. With Dyne’s respect for herself and her expertise, she’s not going to sit around and let someone like Tami get away with being a racist. I wouldn’t either.
“So, as I understand Dyne Suh’s reasoning, today hosts offering their abodes to AirBnB need to research the activists backgrounds of who they are renting to?” It’s more like………..people who host with Air B&B should sign a contract that prevents them from being misogynist, racist, homophobic, etc. How would you feel if this had happened to you?
RE: Some still express serious doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: Thanks for posting the entire FB post. That was insightful, and confirms some things in my mind. This part:
3. Yeah I cried! Having studied racism and having experienced discrimination many times throughout my life does not make me immune from the pain it causes each time. If anything, it makes it more painful because I understand it more. I chose to study race precisely because I have been discriminated against in the past – to right that wrong and find ways to prevent the hurt from happening to others. I am a sensitive person, and especially when I am discriminated against for my race because it is like getting kicked a spot that is already bruised. Of course it wasn’t my first time being discriminated against – it happens all the time. Not a single month goes by without someone saying “Where are you really from?” or “that’s the thing about Asians …” or catcalling “konnichiwa” “me love you long time” “hey Asian girl” when I walk down the street or my race plays some significant role in some subtle way.
Ok, she lives in Cali. Seriously, in Cali (especially in LA area), Asians haven’t been the “minority” for a long time. Can someone confirm? I’ve lived in Cali myself. Not a single month goes by without someone making an Asian remark? Wow. I live in a major city now as well where Asians are less than 15% of the population, and get that maybe 2x a year, and sometimes it’s just a man catcalling a woman not specifically because I’m Asian? Maybe I’m not good-looking enough to get these kinds of catcalls on a monthly basis without fail? LOL.
I still stand behind the fact that the entire transcript was not available, and therefore, it shouldn’t have been spun into a story with the headline of the likes “Asian women denied housing because of race” because it just wasn’t true. Suh herself in her FB post is completely spinning this into a racial discrimination incident, whereas the facts seem to show it just wasn’t the case. It was more about her being a butt, getting called out, and then the woman let out a racist comment in the heat of anger, handing Suh the perfect trigger point to cause this cascade of news. NO, I don’t buy what she’s saying about how it’s all about how Tami needed to “learn her lesson” about discrimination. That’s just the way she’s trying to get support unfortunately and generate these warm fuzzies with other Asians, some of whom seem all too ready to capitalize a piece of this and gain attention from this incident (i.e. the other Asian law student who’s trying to EXPOSE Tami and have her stoned online basically), omg–seriously, there’s a time and place to do that, and to take such extreme and invasive measures for some racially biased comments? Stop it already. You’re making yourself famous for being stupid. The FB post is probably what we will see as Suh’s hasty exit from this whole mess before things escalate and the truth finally comes out. The whole things just smells off, from the ridiculous video, to the missing texts, and the followup FB posts by Suh herself.
It IS important because we cannot have stupid stuff happening and the whole Asian American community rallying around something ridiculous. Having been in the activist community, I known it’s easy for people to latch onto an issue. Us activist types relish media attention and especially younger activists can easily get sucked into the whole feeling of unity/solidarity over an issue, but your issue has to be legit, ok? Fact check carefully before joining the rally.
RE: Some still express serous doubts about victim in racist Airbnb incident(in reply to Jill): So Jill….what you are basically saying is that it is OK for people to use racist remarks when someone expects too much from them?
And being racially ridiculed 2x a year is ok with you? I am white female and never have had someone make racist remarks against me……that is how it should be for every race. It makes me feel very sad that you have become desensitized to this. THAT is why these conversations need to happen and why people like Tami need to be highlighted. it needs to be made unacceptable!!! No matter what conversation happened, at the end of the day we know that Tami resorted to racism and that can not be acceptable. I hope she is no longer able to work as a teacher. Period!
On behalf of AsAmNews: Existentialed has posted a total of 14 comments critical of Suh and coverage by AsAmNews in this post and others. We welcome diverse points of views. However, we have decided not to post any more comments from Existentialed on this topic so that not one person dominates the conversation. We have sent him an email to the email address he provided us offering him an opportunity to write a blog post on this topic.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: (Posted for Existentialed in reply to Randall): The comments that I made were original, many in response to other commentators, respectful and apparently engaging, judging from other comments. The quest for truth and full context reporting is an important one. Your silencing me on this matter says all I need to know about AsAmNews.
I appreciate your offer for a blog post but I will look for the light of day on this story through a news site rather than a blog site.
I would appreciate it if you would post this as my last post on the matter. Does AsAmNews have the tolerance for at least that courtesy?
RE: Somr Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: Based on everything that’s been put forth, I speculate that this is what happened:
On the way to the cabin, Ms. Suh thinks about how much fun it would have been if the hot tub was working. She starts fuming and thinking that she has been swindled by the host or at the very least she deserves a very significant discount because the hot tub is unavailable. Ms. Suh mentions the hot tub quite a bit in her public statements, and my impression is that she seems to have a chip on her shoulder anyway and thinks a racist lurks around every corner.
So she sends a message insisting on a steep discount. The Host balks. From the perspective of the Host, she thinks that Ms. Suh is a getting a great deal with or without the hot tub and that most people rent with her as an inexpensive way to stay in at the mountain resort not to go hot tubbing. (As someone who lives in the area, I was surprised how inexpensive it was.) In the Host’s mind, the hot tub is a minor amenity and she was upfront about its condition as stated in the released messages. In addition, the Host allowed Ms. Suh to bring her dogs which she was not obligated to do. Remember Ms. Suh was only renting a room not the entire cabin. If Ms. Suh had rented the entire cabin, the issue of a broken hot tub would certainly be valid. There was no guarantee that other guests would not be using it if it were operational.
The exchange becomes heated, and Ms. Suh threatens to report the Host to Airbnb about the hot tub. I suspect Ms. Suh may have also mentioned her legal background which implies she knows the legal system and can make trouble for the Host. Ms. Suh openly questions the honesty of the Host by using the term “misleading” which she has used in her public statements. That’s an insult to imply that someone is a dishonest. The Host loses it and starts making some ugly racial statements in response. In the end, I think the Host refused to rent to Ms. Suh because she accused her of being dishonest, made unreasonable demands, and would have been a troublesome guest. The Host shouldn’t have said what she said, but I don’t think she’s a racist and I wouldn’t have a problem renting from her. On the other hand, I would be wary of Ms. Suh and interacting with her in any way because she is going to be a lawyer soon and she lets everyone know it. As Ms. Suh wrote on Facebook, ” I did say I was a law student on my profile, though. Bad move on her part.”
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (In reply to Phil):Wow that certainly is a very fascinating theory! You have quite an imagination, I must say.
So why hasn’t the host, whose name has been aired widely, and who would have had a record of this alleged exchange, come out with her side of the story?
I’m guessing it’s because that’s not what happened.
Now here’s another possibility: I know that people who run rentals often check out the social media accounts of their guests, just to learn who their renting to. Maybe the host did this, and being an ardent Trump supporter, developed a deep dislike bordering on hatred towards Suh based on what she saw on her facebook account. Maybe this explains why she said such awful things to her.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in racist Airbnb Incident: Hi Ellen,
Allow me address your questions.
First, my theory is not exculpatory for the Host. It only provides a context and
explanation as to why seeming a cordial transaction turns into an angry exchange. I don’t believe a heat of the moment racist remark defines person.
Second, the Host has probably not come forward because the missing messages do not exonerate her. Even my imagination has trouble coming up with a scenario in which the racist remarks were justified. More importantly, there have been numerous threats made against the Host. Feel free to check the comments section on Youtube where the video is being shown. The Internet vigilante mob is in full force on this one. It wouldn’t be a stretch of the imagination to think that a deranged person might try to physically hurt the Host at this point given emotional reaction this incident has caused.
Third, your theory that the Host checked Ms. Suh’s Facebook page, learned she was a liberal activist who hates Trump, and decided to cancel the rental agreement makes no sense. The Host had over month to check and cancel. It was Ms. Suh who contacted the Host when she was 15 minutes away and got into some argument that lead to the angry exchange and cancellation. Up to that point everything was fine. As someone who lives Southern California, it would be almost impossible to function if you decided to keep liberals out of your life.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: Your theory most certainly IS exculpatory for the host in that it means that she was provoked and turns Suh into a liar who to some extent deserves a rebuke. Personally I don’t think that’s what happened.
I have some good reasons for floating the idea that the host checked out Suh’s facebook account and then decided to renege on her agreement to include the additional guests, or maybe perhaps had it driven from her mind.
Someone in the comments on the WaPo article about this incident a few days ago noted that the host was actually facebook friends with Ms. Suh under a different name (same first name with the distinctive spelling, different last name). This commentator was floating the theory that the two were somehow in collusion and that the whole thing was some sort of hoax. I initially didn’t believe this, but then started checking it out and discovered that it was actually true* (the part about the host and Suh being fb friends, I’m pretty sure the hoax thing is wrong and that Suh didn’t realize who this person was, that she had maybe gotten a friend request under false pretenses.)
Here are links to the WaPo comment thread in question:
http://tinyurl.com/mqb5hl9
Of course the friending could have happened after this whole incident, but I’m rather doubtful that Suh would have accepted a friend request from a person with that first name after this incident without being extremely suspicious.
This is all very curious, hence my speculation (which I will admit is only speculation and is not proven, there could be other explanations for what happened here) that the host snooped on Suh sometime between accepting the extra guests and pets and the day of the reservation, and decided she didn’t like Suh’s politics and associations.
By the next day after these comments, Suh had privatized her fb friends list (it is quite disturbing that people were actually picking through it looking for dirt) and the host’s account had disappeared so I’m assuming someone tipped Suh off, she messaged and unfriended the host, who then deleted her own account. Alas I didn’t think to get some screencaps of the host’s account so you will simply have to rely on the fact I and the WaPo commentator (Volucre) and a few other people all independently verified it.
In any case, Suh apparently never got a revised invoice from the host for the additional guests, and didn’t follow up on this, perhaps assuming that they could simply settle up in person. And in the meantime, the host either forgot she’d promised to accommodate a group of four, or decided to renege on the arrangement and claim it never even happened. The third possibility is that Suh fabricated the phone text message exchanges about the additional guests, but I’m assuming the reporters here have verified those messages and so this possibility can be discounted.
*the clincher was when I scrolled down through this person’s public posts and found her referring to herself with the very same last name as the host’s. Busted. And contrary to what one commentator said, the host wasn’t simply following Suh, they actually were friends.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: “It would be almost impossible to function if you decided to keep liberals out of your life.”
As has been noted by people claiming that Suh perpetrated a hoax, she isn’t just a liberal, she’s an activist. Her facebook page includes many posts pretty much guaranteed to infuriate a Trump supporter.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: “And I will not allow this country to be told what to do by foreigners” starts making a WHOLE lot more sense if she was actually reacting to Suh’s activist facebook posts and to the fact that a lot of her friends have non-European, “foreign” names and faces.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident (In reply to Phil) :The host calls Dyne a “con-artist” just before making the racist remarks. I’d like to know what was said just before this to elicit this kind of accusation.
RE: Some Still Express Serious Doubt about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident( in reply to Phil):In response to Phil. Koodos. I have no doubt that Ms. Suh will get away this time.
However I am certain that there will be a day when her true nature will be revealed. Hopefully sooner than later.
RE: Some Still Express Serious doubts about Victim in Racist Airbnb Incident: I’m rather taken aback to discover that Existentialed has been removed from the discourse for posting 14 comments and therefore “dominating the conversation.”
Isn’t this what public discourse is supposed to be about–a free exchange of ideas and viewpoints? VERY surprised, as he/she hasn’t been belligerent or rude in any way at all to anyone on here. He/she was just bringing up missing gaps in information and expressing a critical opinion of the coverage surrounding this event–which I think is perfectly valid. Are individuals on this board to tally their comments for fear they they will be next for reaching 14 comments expressing whatever opinion? I urge you to let him/her back on, it’s not fair to do that. I think as Americans we welcome the differences in opinions, and that is what helps everyone as we try to figure out what happened.